The Ground Gives Way v2.3 is Out!

I am very happy to annonuce that v2.3 is now out! It has one of the longest changelogs so far even though the changes are less fundamental than those in v2.2 were. The main changes are: Interesting merchants, Predictable armour and resistance, Poison rework, Attacks of Opportunity and more interesting Monster Behaviour.

You can learn about the new mechanics by playing the “what’s new in v2.3”-tutorial, and check the effect reference document for any new effects you encounter in the game.

I would like to thank (in no special order) the following people for giving me feedback on the v2.3 beta and helping me polish the release! Thank you very much Roneitis, HedoNNN and Evren. Also thank you everyone who have given feedback since last release (credits are in the changelog), and finally, thank you to everyone who is playing! :)

 

Comments

  1. Congratulations for the release! And thank you again for this great game. :)

    From the changelog, my fav change may be:
    “animals will eat food they can eat on the ground (depending on if they are carnivores, herbivores or omnivores), nutrition will calm them.”

    Also, I noticed that items in the castle, when not picked up, disappears now after resting! Is it new?

    1. > Congratulations for the release! And thank you again for this great game. :)

      Thank you! :)

      > I noticed that items in the castle, when not picked up, disappears now after resting! Is it new?

      It’s subtly mentioned in the changelog, but it might not be obvious: “items in containers now smell of humans”…

    1. On the other hand, floating weapons step on floor traps. This place is weird.

      Also, I like how booze is one of the strongest weapon coats.

      1. > On the other hand, floating weapons step on floor traps.

        Do they? In that case before they used their “fly” ability, right? Otherwise that’s a bug.

        > Also, I like how booze is one of the strongest weapon coats.

        I hope you mean the development version? I decided to remove booze entirely in the final version.

      1. I like Addam’s Family’s crawling Hand better actually… but why not make the Claws fly to add more variation from the Crawling Hand?

        1. I’d like claws and hands be quite similar.

          The relation with hands flying/picking stuff up is that right now all monsters can pick up items except if they “can’t open doors”. So to make it logical, animated hands would have to fly to explain how they can still walk.

  2. I just wanted to say, your changes to the Lab make a world of difference. You’ve made a bunch of /super/ cool elementals, I love the water and the light ones, and I really like the mechanical animals. It’s really made the Labs much more interesting. The alien pod rooms do a great job incentivising exploration with really powerful, interesting items, whilst also giving great flavour.

    Just, wow. I managed to pull out a clutch win where my all-in, despite leaving me very strong, due to slowing attacks, left me in a very tight position using all my consumables on the 5th Lab floor. I managed to get out, but I couldn’t get to the campsite I had on the 5th Dungeon level because I was too heavily poisoned, and I had to use my last food point. The next time I came down, I equipped 2 Zap Guns I found in the aforementioned alien pods, but right near the stairs was a Dragon of FB! I managed to kill it, but I had to go back up to rest again.

    This time, on the way up though, was a water elemental, which rusted by iron boots and helmet, using my restoring potion in the process.

    After I rested though, I grew scissor hands! Lost my rings, battle spear, and gauntlets. Luckily, I’d cleared most of the enemies of the 5th floor by that point, but I had to deal with an Ice Elemental, a Fire Elemental, and 3 or so Honour Guards, but I managed to dash for the exit, and go for the win.

    1. Oh wow! That’s a really nice story, I am happy that the game can throw you in such interesting situations ๐Ÿ˜€

      I am glad you like the lab better now!

      Finally, congratulations on the win!! ๐Ÿ˜€

  3. 2.3 feels great! still can’t get past the dungeon, but i’m getting there!

    a bug thing: i’ve noticed that when you’ve cured yourself of disease (with one of the rods anyways) the [X] status viewer still shows disease on self.

    an odd thing: for whatever reason, windows defender is extremely eager to label the windows 10 version as a virus, but not the XP ver. this didn’t happen for me for the 2.3 dev test version.

    1. oh, also: it is HECK OF CHARM when a neutral goblin says hello, but they seem to be “whisteling” instead of “whistling”

    2. > 2.3 feels great!

      Great! :)

      > a bug thing: iโ€™ve noticed that when youโ€™ve cured yourself of disease (with one of the rods anyways) the [X] status viewer still shows disease on self.

      Ah, I think I know why, thank you for reporting!

      > for whatever reason, windows defender is extremely eager to label the windows 10 version as a virus … this didnโ€™t happen for me for the 2.3 dev test version

      Hm, very strange, especially since there are very few changes compared to the test version.

  4. Gah! Enemies /still/ don’t get surprised by magic attacks when unaware! This is really getting in the way of a wonderful zero-noise mage run.

      1. Sorry for the flurry of comments.

        An ice elemental picked up a skinning knife and didn’t drop it when it died.

    1. Really? I really thought it was fixed, and seems to work correctly at least most of the time?

      Was it wand attacks or rods? Unaware or asleep?

      1. It was unaware, I believe, and attack wands. I had it happen multiple times. The trouble is that it still says the *surprise attack* message when you hit a monster with MR and it fails the resistance check, so you only ever notice the bug when it /does/ resist it, which doesn’t happen always.

  5. I also got my first win. A very fast character with stairs detection ๐Ÿ˜€

    The anti movement free attack is the biggest change for me. And i dont know… It is great zombies and the like isn’t totally useless now, but at the same time it feels like I have less decisions. I have this more static feeling. Still this direction might be good, because it wasn’t good any slower monster is just pointless, but i loved the combat movement tactics too. isnt it somehow possible to mix the two? ๐Ÿ˜€ but i just played a few games.

    1. Thank you for the feedback! Especially regarding attacks of opportunity :)

      > isnt it somehow possible to mix the two?

      I am open to suggestions if you have any ideas on how :)

      1. Maybe AoO could be a status? Ie. only some monsters would have it and the player would not start with it, but would find it on equipment.

        I haven’t got used to this change, too. Not that I think it’s bad – it definitely makes slow monsters a threat and running from a fight very risky – but I also liked how you could use you surroundings, even moving between useful dungeon features for the Ctx bonuses as the fight demanded.

        Right now, the dungeon features feel a bit less useful, as you have to see the enemy early enough to retreat and then wait for them to come to you. For me, this actually feel more tedious than running in the middle of a fight – then it’s thrilling as you are running for your life, but when you’re waiting for the monster to sluggishly walk to your chosen fighting spot, it’s not.

        It’s also a bit of a bummer when you turn a corner to end up next to a dangerous monster – you’re pretty much stuck in the fight, because running will hurt more than trying to survive.

        1. Thank you for your feedback!

          > Maybe AoO could be a status?

          It would be an alternative, but I introduced the mechanic as a solution to a problem in general. Since all but the very fast monsters can be slower than you during the course of the game.

          > Right now, the dungeon features feel a bit less useful

          Yeah, understandable. Thank you for this point of view.

          > running will hurt more than trying to survive.

          Only if it is faster than you, it might very well be worth moving away if you can take one or two hits.

      2. I was thinking about maybe making it feel more… desperate, on the behalf of the attacker, and making it take an extra turn. This would, I suppose, sort of impinge on having everything take the same amount of time… Also, it might not really fix all that much, aside from giving slightly more opportunity to run away and reposition.

        Maybe the class of enemies that doesn’t do them could increase? Animals, perhaps, not really wanting to kill you, might not care so much. Especially weaker, less aggressive ones, like rats, or regular dogs. Expanding the idea of non-aggressive enemies, the humans who would rather run away than face you when you’ve got more health than them don’t seem to care that much about having you dead, over having themselves alive, so it might make sense if they didn’t do it.

        In another note, AoO completely change the power of block vs armour. In the last update, block was harder to get, but protected against ranged and melee attacks of all elements, but armour protected against physical magic and was easier to get, and couldn’t be reduced by flanking. Now, block is still harder to get, but is completely useless against enemies with an AoO, whereas armour works just fine.

        It’s probably fine. Block is still in a very powerful place. I almost managed to win with a 100% blocking run and a longsword, planning to slowly beat to death anything that wasn’t magic, but I got hit with a rust trap, and frantically started looking around for some oil for my longsword, knowing that it would not be able to last in a long confrontation…

        1. > making it take an extra turn.

          It *kind of* does now. It resets the progress towards a turn, but I regret that it is not very transparent and does not tell you if the monster will be able to follow you or not during next turn. This is for technical reasons (because the monster attacks out of its turn), but I could probably do it better.

          > Maybe the class of enemies that doesnโ€™t do them could increase?

          Yes, this is similar to what reddish_kangaroo suggested above. But if I am to reduce the amount of monsters that have the mechanic, doesn’t that mean it is an undesirable mechanic? I also think it might be a bit too much for the player to think about *whether* the monster can AoO or not all the time? The idea of the mechanic is that it should not be easy to kite monsters or to navigate around them for optimal positioning at all times.

          > [block is] completely useless against enemies with an AoO

          Only if you actually do retreat, and only for one (usually) hit. I would say block is still very powerful. I don’t find myself retreting much from fights, and the mechanic is there to discourage it.

  6. But here is an idea. Raise the scroll identify cost to 4(or even 5), and change scroll of starvation to just -1 food (there shouldt be a total killer scroll, or just a super rare). This would push the player sometimes into randomly read scrolls, which could result very interesting situations. If common scrolls were even more common this would be even better(bigger chance to find two of the same scrolls). And you could add more funny scrolls with small strange effects. Like temporary mutations.

    1. Hm.. I think this would be more similar how the game were before Ep, and I (and many others) didn’t like it because there are so many different scrolls, and that’s the idea. I don’t want to have a id-minigame similar to Brogue where you try to guess the use by exclusion. I’d rather have it like it is now: there’s a very little chance that any particular scroll shows up in a game, I don’t want you to *expect* to find a certain scroll. Ep is still a very scarce resource and it still makes sense in some situations to try scrolls unidentified.

      1. yeah, but now negative scrolls are totally pointless. maybe it would be better if you removed them, and then it could be an option too to randomly try them (and they still have the price to use the scroll in the wrong situation).

        Bug: it looks like if i coat a weapon that has already an enchanted damage, the coated damage wont work.

        btw: a starvation 1 scroll could be useful, if you are full.

        1. The way I see it, bad scrolls would only be pointless if you were *required* to identify them (like wands). Like it is now, it may very well be beneficial to try unidentified scrolls for an “all-in” situation. Especially if you are already low on food.

          > Bug: it looks like if i coat a weapon that has already an enchanted damage, the coated damage wont work.

          Are you sure? Note that coats have changed: coating only works on living monsters (not on undeads, elementals etc).

          > btw: a starvation 1 scroll could be useful, if you are full.

          Yes, maybe. Will think about it :)

          1. bug: Not sure. It might be an undead. but this change isn’t too intuitive. Kinda strange an ice damage wont work on a fire elemental just because it is a coat. it looks like a temporary enchantment.

            bug2: if brass knockles are equipped, upgrade cost will be doubled with a discount for the two ๐Ÿ˜€

            is it intended the free attack(the move away thing) cant be blocked? (im not sure about armour)

            monsters might move one after the free attack even if they become unconscious (maybe fast ones).

            1. > but this change isnโ€™t too intuitive.

              All coat-potions have been renamed as poisons, to which undead and non-living monsters are immune.

              > Kinda strange an ice damage wont work on a fire elemental just because it is a coat.

              The potion is now named “freeze blood” which should make it more obvious that it won’t work on a fire elemental which doesn’t have blood.

              > if brass knockles are equipped, upgrade cost will be doubled with a discount for the two ๐Ÿ˜€

              Thank you! That was new to me!

              > is it intended the free attack(the move away thing) cant be blocked? (im not sure about armour)

              Yes, it is intended. Armour still works.

              > monsters might move one after the free attack even if they become unconscious (maybe fast ones).

              This is actually intentional. You attack them “in the movement” so to speak, so they “land” where they intended to move, even if they are knocked out.

          2. And how does knockback works? is it possible im slammed to the wall next to me, when the monster is in front of me?

            1. It is, unfortunately. The rules for the direction of a knockback are a bit complicated. It is best to count on that you can be knocked in any direction.

  7. Sorry for being late on this but congrats on the new release :)
    The game once again has a new feeling with the introduced changes (especially AoO). I read some good suggestions here concerning the use of AoO like less aggressive creatures not being able to use it or the enemy that used it cannot follow you (I had the same idea), and also good points on why they’d be against the reason why you first introduced AoO.

    Having died more than a couple of times for being flanked and not able to safely disengage, I had the idea that there might be some room for introducing some more skills. They could come with enchanted equipment or taught by some traders. One can be ‘Tumble’ (as in DnD) that would allow you to move away without getting AoO’d. One other that removes the flanking penalty (like ‘crowd-fighting’ in SIL). Another can be used to switch places with a certain enemy (thus giving more tactical consideration to positioning). I don’t know, if you fancy these, maybe some of them can be also used with EP (though I think the EP is scarce enough).

    Another point (although not as current) concerns enchanted equipment, I always tend to equip those found in the first levels, since I can always restart the game if they turn out to be bad. Maybe you can decrease the probability of finding such at the upper levels and increase it at lower levels?

    1. > Sorry for being late on this but congrats on the new release :)

      Thank you! :)

      I really like the idea of skills like tumble or crowd-fighting and I do think would fit into TGGW. I think I like a tumble skill much more than having more monsters incapable of doing AoOs as it would change your playstyle if you got it.

      > Maybe you can decrease the probability of finding such at the upper levels and increase it at lower levels?

      I’m not sure I see that as a problem – I think it is quite ok to find an early enchanted item and equip it directly and hope for the best. I also like the thrill of finding such items early. While the probability could be decreased, I kind of like having every item appear at the same probability throughout the dungeon. Well, I’ll think more about it :)

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